About NNN
Since March 2005, New Nebraska Network has been the state's premier source of progressive online political commentary and community-building.

Please support our efforts by becoming engaged, spreading the word, and contributing what you can towards our continued growth as a voice for change in Nebraska politics.


Join the Network

Frontpage RSS Feed

Diaries RSS Feed

Daily E-mail Updates

Read NNN Archives
(pre-August 2007)

Managing Editor:
Kyle Michaelis,
kyle@newnebraska.net

NNN is a meritocracy. Contribute and you will be rewarded.

Poll
What interests you the most at the Nebraska Democratic Party's 2010 State Convention being held this weekend in Columbus?
Gubernatorial nomination (if contested)
State Chair's race (if contested)
Debate of new platform and resolutions
Fate of 2012 presidential caucus
George McGovern speaking at dinner
Not going and not interested

Results

Search




Advanced Search


Event Calendar
July 2010
(view month)
S M T W R F S
* * * * 01 02 03
04 05 06 07 08 09 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31
* * * * * * *
<< (add event) >>

Local Blog Roll
  • Neal Obermeyer 'Toons
  • Paul Fell Cartoons
  • Bill Dunn Cartoons
  • NE Appleseed Blog
  • Blog for Rural America
  • NDP Blog for Nebraska
  • Omaha Blog
  • BJ Nebraska
  • Freedom Road Project
  • Lincolnite
  • Public Christian
  • The Dark Stuff
  • Revolution-21
  • The Watchdog Post
  • Scenic Route (GI Ind.)
  • AgLines (GI Ind.)
  • Omaha TV News
  • Harold W. Andersen
  • Nebraska Watchdog
  • Leavenworth Street
  • Objective Conservative
  • Red State Eclectic
  • Heartland Notebook
  • Weird Harold
  • Don't Let Me Stop You
  • Economic Trends
  • Right-Wing Professor
  • Art Diamond Blog
  • Vital Signs
  • Domestic Divapalooza
  • Unicam Watch (Rep.)
  • Grassroots In NE
  • Patriotic Resistance
  • From The Heartland
  • Nebraska Redneck
  • One Out In The Third
  • Plains Feeder
  • Mark Fahleson

  • 50 State Blog Network
  • Alabama
  • Arizona
  • California
  • Colorado
  • Connecticut
  • DailyKos
  • Firedoglake
  • Florida
  • Georgia
  • Idaho
  • Illinois
  • Indiana
  • Iowa
  • Louisiana
  • Maine
  • Maryland
  • Massachusetts
  • Michigan
  • Minnesota
  • Missouri
  • Montana
  • MyDD
  • Nebraska
  • Nevada
  • New Hampshire
  • New Jersey
  • New Mexico
  • New York (a)
  • New York (b)
  • North Carolina
  • North Dakota
  • Ohio (a)
  • Ohio (b)
  • Oklahoma
  • Open Left
  • Oregon
  • Pennsylvania
  • Rhode Island
  • Swing State Project
  • Tennessee
  • Texas (a)
  • Texas (b)
  • Utah
  • Vermont
  • Virginia
  • Washington
  • West Virginia
  • Wisconsin

  • World-Herald Stoops To Threatening Ben Nelson To Kill Health Care Reform

    by: Kyle Michaelis

    Thu Dec 03, 2009 at 04:18:23 AM CST


    Having blocked online access to its editorial content for years, the Omaha World-Herald took the extraordinary step of featuring two recent editorials on health care reform on its website.  They were evidently hoping for the widest possible readership to have a greater impact on the most important Congressional debate in decades.

    However, what was truly extraordinary about these editorials was how completely they exposed the World-Herald's shameless partisanship and right-wing extremism.  They make no attempt at balance.  They contribute nothing but a litany of Republican talking points crafted, refined, and repeated with only one purpose in mind - to kill health care reform.  The World-Herald is also being quite transparent in how it hopes to achieve that goal - by targeting its criticism squarely at Senator Ben Nelson.

    Exhibit A:

    World-Herald editorial: Just say 'no' to Reid health care plan (11/20/2009)

    Sixty votes will be needed to send Sen. Harry Reid's health care proposal to the Senate floor for debate. Sen. Ben Nelson, one of the most closely watched swing votes, should vote no.

    Why? Because Reid's proposal, like that approved in the U.S. House, would place immense burdens on small and medium-sized rural hospitals in the Midlands. It would not prevent further steep increases in health care costs.  It would, however, shunt billions in new costs onto state governments. And its budget savings at the federal level depend on empty, misleading promises of fiscal discipline that Congress has shown it's utterly incapable of fulfilling....

    Those considerations need to occupy the very forefront of Sen. Nelson's thinking as he ponders how to vote on the proposal. Is he more worried about making sure that the vital interests of Nebraska are protected, or about pleasing Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi?

    There ought be no question about what the proper answer should be...If Nelson can't make the case right now that rural Nebraska would be safe under the Reid legislation, then he should not vote to allow it to go forward.

    Otherwise, congressional procedures would likely produce an ultimate result that - regardless of the senator's possible "no" vote at the end - would deliver a terrible blow to Nebraska communities.  That is the kind of result from which a state finds it hard to recover. The same can be said of a lawmaker's reputation.


    If anything, it's the reputation of the Omaha World-Herald that shouldn't recover from such a one-sided hatchet job against the health care reform effort.  Ben Nelson has been commendably consistent in his recognition of the dysfunction in the health care system that is bankrupting America's businesses and terrorizing America's families - even in rural Nebraska.  The World-Herald turns a blind eye to millions of travesties and tragedies, suggesting that partisanship would be the only possible motivation for Nelson's allowing this debate to proceed.

    Thankfully, Ben Nelson didn't give in to the World-Herald's implied threat against his "reputation."  The day after the above editorial ran, Nelson cast the 60th vote to allow the health care debate to proceed.  Just in time for the start of that debate on Monday of this week, the World-Herald returned with the following editorial (Exhibit B) that is much more explicit in its threat against Nelson's political career:

    World-Herald editorial: Be wary, Midlanders, of health care proposals (11/30/2009)

    The overpromising that supporters are making for the current health care proposals in Congress is breathtaking.  Policy-making on such a colossal scale of complexity and expense unavoidably involves difficult choices. Yet many supporters act as if these proposals don't involve serious uncertainties or shortcomings - let alone budget concerns.  The more that supporters describe the situation as problem-free and blissfully budget-friendly, the more that Midlanders should be wary.

    America needs to tackle the health care issue, but with legislation that is affordable and practical rather than fiscally irresponsible and heavy-handed. The current legislation needs to be scrapped and a more moderate approach adopted....

    As the Senate takes up its consideration of the Reid proposal, it's important to underscore, again, the significance of the Senate's voting procedures.  Sen. Ben Nelson, the senior senator from Nebraska, voted on Nov. 21 to send the health care reform bill to the Senate floor for debate. Nelson was one of 60 senators voting to do so.  Nebraskans should know that Sen. Nelson was in a position to prevent this bill from getting to the Senate floor, as all 60 votes were needed.

    At least once more and perhaps several additional times during the Senate debate, a "cloture" vote will be taken. That means 60 votes are needed to allow the bill to move forward. In such situations, Sen. Nelson will have the opportunity to stop the health care legislation, and he should.

    Voting against the bill at the very end of the process, when only 51 votes would be needed in the Senate, would have no real meaning. Given the numbers in the Senate, the only "no" vote by Nelson that would have any real-world effect on the legislation is an earlier "no" vote, during cloture situations.

    Nebraskans should make note of all votes that Sen. Nelson will cast on this measure. He has already voted once to move this bill toward passage. He has more opportunities, with the cloture vote or votes being the most critical.  The senator should be held accountable for all of them, not just the last one.


    In other words, the all-powerful World-Herald will blame Ben Nelson and hold him personally responsible if this legislation is signed into law.  The World-Herald doesn't give a damn about Nelson's long history of avoiding obstruction and allowing straight up-or-down votes.  The message is clear - if Ben Nelson doesn't kill health care reform, the World-Herald will work to kill his political career should he run for re-election in 2012.

    Of course, at least in this second editorial there is some acknowledgement of a health care "issue" that America "needs to tackle."  But, for all the editorial's fretting over the "uncertainties" of reform, it's the certainty of how much higher health care costs will spiral without reform that reveals the World-Herald's selective and shallow thinking.  They also neglect that the last time health care reform was "scrapped," it took fifteen years of costly inaction to build the political will to get us where we are today.

    The World-Herald also conveniently imagines that proponents of reform are just blissfully ignorant of its costs.  Of course, those in desperate situations are going to come at the issue from a different place than those who are (momentarily) faring better under the status quo.  There's also a world of difference in how people can reasonably balance so many competing concerns in the struggle for quality, access, affordability, and long-term sustainability in our health care system.  But, the World-Herald cares nothing for such balancing.  They just want health care reform killed, and they want Ben Nelson to be the man who kills it!

    That's the ultimate irony of the World-Herald's editorial assault.  They complain about the "overpromising" of health care reform without acknowledging their own role exaggertaing and overhyping its inevitable costs.  

    The World-Herald willfully poisons the well of public opinion and pollutes the minds of readers.  They make veiled threats against an elected official.  They're scared of debate by the U.S. Senate - and now scared of an honest discussion on their own editorial page.  Such fear!  Such pathetic fear of change!  It's all they have.  The city of Omaha, and the state of Nebraska deserve so much better.

    Kyle Michaelis :: World-Herald Stoops To Threatening Ben Nelson To Kill Health Care Reform
    Tags: , , , , , , (All Tags)
    Print Friendly View Send As Email
    re: Rural Nebraska (0.00 / 0)
    Since that first World-Herald editorial repeatedly noted - with no real facts - that health care reform would be so terrible for rural Nebraska, here are a few recent columns totally decimating that blatant fear-mongering:

    Chuck Hassebrook: Rural Nebraska urgently needs health care reform

    Keith J. Mueller: Benefits of health reform great for rural Nebraska

    Niel Ritchie: Rural economic challenges necessitate health reform


    Elephant? What elephant? (0.00 / 0)
    Let's not forget the elephant in the room, Kyle. Sen. Nelson may have cast an important vote that allowed debate to progress - while his Republican counterpart, Sen. Johanns, did exactly as everyone expected him to - yet we cannot ignore the cornucopia of statements Ben has expressed that highlight his own culpability in eroding support for this bill.

    I attended one of Sen. Nelson's town hall meetings, in Scottsbluff, where he made the very public statement that he thought this bill should have 65 votes for it to pass! Most recently, as expressed in this Daily Kos article, he threatens to abort it if Stupak amendment like language against federal funding of abortion isn't included, as reported in this Huffington Post article.

    So, you have made appropriate comments on the partisan nature of the Omaha Weird Harold, but let us not forget that, in making these statements, Nelson has laid the foundation for his own demise within the Nebraska Democratic Party. His public statements are in direct opposition with the stated will of the NDP as expressed in its Platform and in resolutions passed by the NDP's governing body, the State Central Committee.

    I don't expect our Democratic Party representatives to follow, in lockstep, the dogmas of our party, as is being considered by a resolution of the Republican Party for its candidates but I do expect them to at least resemble a Democrat from time to time, and to fight for what we stand for on the important issues. This health care bill is the most important issue we have fought for since the Civil Rights legislation of the '60s. If he can't be on board with us for that, then as far as I am concerned, he can join Joe Lieberman in the Independent column.


    Not exactly (0.00 / 0)
    Brian, I was at that meeting too.  Nelson said he would like to see the yes votes around 65 or more, because it would provide more legitimacy to the bill.  Especially for Nebraskans, they would see it as a health care bill, not a democratic health care bill.  He did not say that was how many it need to pass.  He is exactly right.  The more republicans that vote for the bill, the more the bill will look legitimate in the eyes of the electorate.  Now, I am not saying that will happen, but in theory, that is correct.  There are some people on the extreme right that will not like no matter what, but those are not the people that the Dems are trying to convince, it is the moderate Reps and independents.  

    The only thing that Nelson did not explain very well is how this will keep the costs down.  I wanted to ask them about the role that states will play in this.  I had the chance to speak to my state senator, and he is also concerned about the federal government dumping more of the costs on to the states as time passes.  


    [ Parent ]
    Since when does a majority have to be 65%? (0.00 / 0)
    Dang it! I've gotta go buy another new bullshit meter ... again.

    What they USED to teach in Civics class, back when I went to school, was that a bill could pass in Congress with 50% being the majority. The Republicans understand that simple concept. When you and Sen. Nelson don't understand it, that makes me wonder how many other things you don't understand.


    [ Parent ]
    Your bullshit meter might be upside down... (0.00 / 0)
    The question that Nelson was responding to was not about passing the bill.  It was about cloture.  Nelson, nor did I, ever say that it NEEDED 65 votes to pass.  He simply said that he would like to see it reach that total.  The 60 votes were needed to begin debate, and that is what happened.  Nelson did say that we would like to see 65 on the final passing to provide more legitimacy to the bill.  Brian, we you talked about the resolution that the NDP SCC passed supporting public option, you said that it passed "nearly unanimously."  Here for link to your commment.  http://newnebraska.net/showCom...

    I am assuming you did this to show the strong support it got in the SCC and to provide some legitimacy to your point.  Nelson is doing the same with his statement.  

    By the way, 50% is not the majority, 50% + 1 is.


    [ Parent ]
    No, you broke the damned thing. (0.00 / 0)
    David,

    I realize that Nelson was talking about cloture at that time. Until there is a finalized bill to vote on, what the hell else do you suppose I could be discussing? The question, up until he actually voted on it, was whether he would vote for cloture, and during the Scottsbluff town hall meeting he was busy building up the calluses on his nut sack from all the fence straddling he was doing. What he SHOULD have been doing was making the case for what the Nebraska Democratic Party VERY strongly urged him to do. He SHOULD have been helping to promote Democratic ideals and encouraging Nebraska's citizens to wake up, pay attention, and realize that what we stand for is what is really best for them. Let Mike Johanns make the Republicans' case. It shouldn't be our "Democratic" Senator doing their job for them.

    Sure, it would be wonderful to have 65 votes, 75 votes, or a "nearly unanimous" vote. But, with the partisan war currently being waged by the Republican right wingers, we need every Democrat in Congress to do their duty and stand up for what our stated principles are. Why did the Republicans get away with passing all their crap legislation without worrying about a 60 count cloture? It is because they had guys like Sen.s Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman willing to do their bidding. We have no one in the Republican ranks that are willing to be "bi-partisan" in return. So what did we gain by allowing Nelson to sell us short? He certainly didn't get any I.O.U.s that help us. Maybe he got a few that will help him and his corporate cronies once he goes on to become a highly paid lobbyist for the health insurance industry.

    I'm not so pissed with Sen. Nelson as I am with those within the Nebraska Democratic Party that have allowed, and are allowing, him to use us like a cheap, easy Friday night date. Hell, he's just doing what comes naturally. Those that continue to fawn over him, calling him "our most important Democrat" and such,  do nothing but guarantee the continuing fade into obscurity of our party. I will never kiss Ben Nelson's ass, and I will never respect those that do.


    [ Parent ]
    Brian..... (0.00 / 0)
    Remember when Bush and the Republican Congress dismantled Social Security?  No?  That's because Ben Nelson stood up against their privatization scheme and Democrats in the Senate had the power to filibuster.

    Your constant, cartoonish portrayal of Ben Nelson as the true enemy of Nebraska Democrats - for whom all that's wrong with Nebraska politics can be blamed - is just plain silly and outlandish.  It's also tired and obnoxious.

    If you think Ben Nelson is the problem when Democrats don't yet have a credible candidate for governor after more than a decade of total Republican domination in state government, you're not really thinking at all.


    [ Parent ]
    Kyle... (0.00 / 0)
    Remember when Bush used reconciliation to force his tax cuts for the wealthy through the Senate, inflating the deficit and plunging the nation into trillions of dollars of additional debt?  Of course you do, because Nelson supported the use of reconciliation and allowed those tax cuts to go through.

    Now, do you remember when Nelson, acting as obstructionist in chief, forced changes in the stimulus making it more expensive, creating fewer jobs, and being less stimulative and, for that, you called him "the hero of the Senate"?

    I really don't think you  ought to be criticizing anyone else's portrayal of Senator Nelson.


    [ Parent ]
    As I said in the last sentence of my previous paragraph ... n/t (0.00 / 0)


    [ Parent ]
    Still not clear.... (0.00 / 0)
    Brian,

    I was simply responding to these two statements.

    I attended one of Sen. Nelson's town hall meetings, in Scottsbluff, where he made the very public statement that he thought this bill should have 65 votes for it to pass!

    Now, where do you imply that it was the cloture motion?  You said "this bill ... to pass", which means to me you were referring to the final vote.  Not the motion, but the final bill.  
    And then,

    What they USED to teach in Civics class, back when I went to school, was that a bill could pass in Congress with 50% being the majority. The Republicans understand that simple concept. When you and Sen. Nelson don't understand it, that makes me wonder how many other things you don't understand.

    Again, this statement makes me think that you are talking about the final bill.  If you knew you were talking about cloture, I guess I do not understand the 50% in order to pass the motion.


    [ Parent ]
    Quisquiglie (0.00 / 0)
    Interpret it however you want to David. Never mind my intent. If you want to spend your time playing with semantics to prove some ethereal point, then you're the only one getting his rocks off on it.

    Nelson made the statement. He was talking about cloture. OK?

    Nelson still won't back the final bill because he prefers to side with the Republicans and his corporate sponsors on this, one of the most important issues the Democratic party has advanced in years. OK?

    Do I need to be more blunt so that you can understand it? If you'd prefer to engage me in the minutiae of deconstructing grammatical points all day, you will lose. But I've got more important things to do today.

    I understand that your allegiance to Sen. Nelson is so absolute that any statement that contradicts him rattles your faith and makes it seem that the entire universe is coming to an end. I assure you that Nebraska's Democrats will survive long after Sen. Nelson has left the Senate, and he has assumed his very lucrative corporate health care interest lobbyist job. Nothing will have changed.


    [ Parent ]
    Unfortunately... (0.00 / 0)
    the cloture vote has been used to kill bills rather than end debate, which was its original intent.

    Prior to 1917, the Senate had no provision for cloture and had a policy of unlimited debate.  Filibustering a bill required continuos floor debate.  In 1917 the Senate adopted a rule where 67 Senators could end debate, but still required continuos floor debate.  In 1975 that requirement was changed to 60 votes.

    The modern filibuster is much different.  A failed cloture vote, instead of extending debate, effectively kills it.  This is a corruption of the original spirit of the Senate being a deliberative body.  As a result, there is almost no cost to filibustering and it has become a common tool for killing legislation supported by the majority.

    As I understand it, the majority leader could still require continuous floor debate.  Perhaps it is time to do just that.


    [ Parent ]
    50% + 1 (0.00 / 0)
    Not always. Look it up in your Roberts' Rules.

    [ Parent ]
    Nelson is Holding Out for Personal Gain/Benefit (0.00 / 0)
    Senator Nelson is trying the thread the needle with his work/comments on this looming monstrosity known as "health care reform bill".  On one hand he might want to run/win another term in 2012.  On the other hand, he knows if he gets tagged with supporting this huge government disaster that he'd better have some kind of golden parachute in-place when the bill passes with his help.  Instead of doing what is really required, namely removing barriers and disincentives to real competition in the health insurance industry.  Now before you "the government is always the answer" liberal Dems blow a gasket again, I hope your stupid health care reform legislation passes.  I will see financial benefit when it does.  I will drop my health savings account/catastrophic insurance plan and instead pay the annual fine for not having insurance.  It will save me thousands of dollars per year.  I have faith that I'll be able to find plenty of perfectly legal ways to shield the extra income from all the new and higher taxes the rest of you are just dying to pay.

    [ Parent ]
    how patriotic of you (0.00 / 0)


    [ Parent ]
    Congratulations on being so wealthy that you don't need insurance. (0.00 / 0)
    Now why the hell should anyone care what you have to say about this?

    [ Parent ]
    Why Should Anyone Care? (0.00 / 0)
    That's an excellent question.  Here's a suggestion for you Don.  Do a Google and see what the emigration requirements are for New Zealand, Singapore, etc.  Then see how long and complicated the forms/process is for "regular" people.  Then check on what the forms/process is like for people who can demonstrate a minimum of $10 million in "investable capital".  Then think about people who meet those minimums and what you, your family, your friends and other progressives will do when "those people who do care what I may say" leave you here to fend for yourselves.

    [ Parent ]
    Everybody duck! This one's "Goin' Galt"! (0.00 / 0)
    Say "g'day" to Gandalf for me, mate.

    [ Parent ]
    Parasite or Patriot (0.00 / 0)
    It's no surprise to most of us that you've admitted that you're a parasite only concerned with what you can take away from this country.  Your loyalty ends where obligation begins.  That seems to be pretty much the philosophy of most of the tea baggers & other right wing nut jobs.  It's not a case of personal responsibility but just a case of personal/capital gains.

    [ Parent ]
    Yeah, right! (0.00 / 0)
    And you'd like us to believe that YOU are one of those with $10M cash on hand? And what makes you think that New Zealand would want you? You might find they're a bit more selective than you think.

    [ Parent ]
    No Comment on Personal Net Worth (0.00 / 0)
    BTO,
    I didn't say I have or do not have $10 million in investable capital.  But I do know people who have and already have relocated to Auckland.  I also have seen how once they made themselves and their interests known, how the government there made every effort to facilitate the emigration process.  Doesn't that concern you?  Even if it's just for the future "lost government revenue" they've escaped???  The loss of that kind of talent, experience and resources concerns me.  It's a sad commentary on their outlook for the USA.

    [ Parent ]
    Maybe ... (0.00 / 0)
    they just wanted to be  closer to their money since they greedily fired all their American workers and shipped their factories overseas. Real patriots, each and every one. I suppose they would have done as GWB's grandfather did during WWII and collaborate with our enemies as well. The important thing is that there is no restriction on how much PROFIT they can make.

    [ Parent ]
    Just Maybe (0.00 / 0)
    BTO,
    You might be correct.  They want to be close to "their money".  They took risk, they worked hard, they didn't force anyone to do business with/for them...and they got tired of supporting those that claim an ever-increasing share without doing anything except existing and try to use force to take it.  Where will the goods, services and jobs come from if BTO gets the power to decree that no one makes a profit that BTO doesn't approve?

    [ Parent ]
    Worked hard? (0.00 / 0)
    I suppose all those CEOs that you like to champion were down on the shop floor, getting their hands dirty, sweating, sometimes bleeding, and putting in the long hours that really got the job done. But let's forget about those that do that kind of work. They should be happy just to make enough to barely get by. The important ones in your world are those that provided the capital and enjoyed counting the profits while they took the afternoon off to go golfing. If you want to call that working hard, then you're more ****ed between the ears than I had even given you credit for.

    [ Parent ]
    No Use (0.00 / 0)
    BTO,
    The people I know who did emigrate to NZ were not "CEOs" other than they started their own businesses, built them into successes, sold them and started other new successful businesses.  They didn't steal, they didn't cheat their customers/employees, they didn't ask/accept "help" from the government, they paid their taxes and, in the end, they left for a location where that activity is encouraged by letting those that succeed keep more of what they have earned.  Your problem at its core is you hate those that have success and that jealousy is eating you alive.  You want to have the power to make them miserable like you are.

    [ Parent ]
    You're a legend in your own mind GeosUser. (0.00 / 0)
    So, greed really was their primary motive? I hope the door didn't hit your "friends" where they sit.

    Oh, and good luck on that new career of yours - interpreting the motives of others. You might want to keep your day job, if you have one.


    [ Parent ]
    GeosUser... (0.00 / 0)
    Surely you recognize the irony of all your would-be John Galt's running away from America because of the health care reform legislation so they can live in New Zealand, which has publicly funded health care for all of its citizens and residents.

    [ Parent ]
    That's True Kyle (0.00 / 0)
    I support passage of government sponsored/supported health insurance for all citizens.  I think it will be a huge milestone in American history along with Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.  

    [ Parent ]
    I will buy you a ticket to NZ, or anywhere else you want to go (0.00 / 0)
    If you promise never to come back.  

    [ Parent ]
    Good! (0.00 / 0)
    Then you will finally experience, first hand,  the quality of all that "free" health care that you fools recommend for those that can't afford health insurance. You can go to some hospital emergency room and ask them to fix you up. I would only wish to see your ugly mug when the doctor tells you to take two aspirins and go write your will after he diagnoses you with cancer. That is the reality that far too many Americans face today.

    [ Parent ]
    The Sarah Palin of Nebraska (0.00 / 0)
    BO,
    You realize, don't you, that when you misquote or quote out of context or simply lie as you have here, that you are no better than that rockdweller Cheney and the smartmouth Palin?

    Nelson never said 65 votes were required to pass. He said it would be great to get 65 votes to show strong support.  Stop blatantly lying.

    Good to see you and Darwin keepin' up the "I won't take Yes for an answer" cause. Sometimes I'm just embarrassed for you, as I am now.



    [ Parent ]
    B.S. (0.00 / 0)
    Huskersolon,

    You produce more B.S. than the McClymont boys' feedlot down the road from me does.

    Let me ask you, were YOU there?

    I didn't think so.


    [ Parent ]
    Oh, and by the way ... (0.00 / 0)
    Quit putting words into Sen. Nelson's mouth, then expecting me to quote you correctly.

    [ Parent ]
    It is interesting... (0.00 / 0)
    that you would invoke my name when, up till now, I have not set foot in this diary.  Perhaps, since begging me not to respond to your feeble-minded insults did not work, you thought you could sneak one by me.  Too bad for you that did not work.  Now, when I was more than happy to stay out of this discussion, I am going to have to make you look stupid.  Frankly, you make it too easy.

    Let's take a look at your last comment

    BO,
    You realize, don't you, that when you misquote or quote out of context or simply lie as you have here, that you are no better than that rockdweller Cheney and the smartmouth Palin?

    Nelson never said 65 votes were required to pass. He said it would be great to get 65 votes to show strong support. Stop blatantly lying.

    Now let's look at what Nelson actually said.

    Nelson appeared to settle on 65 Senate votes as a figure that would provide him a comfort level in terms of establishing a level of bipartisan support for a bill.

    "I think anything less than that would challenge its legitimacy," he said.

    Lincoln Journal Star

    So he did not say, as you put it, "it would be great to get 65 votes to show strong support."  He said if it got fewer than 65 votes it would not seem legitimate.

    Now let's take a look at what Brian wrote.

    I attended one of Sen. Nelson's town hall meetings, in Scottsbluff, where he made the very public statement that he thought this bill should have 65 votes for it to pass!

    So, Brian's description was more or less consistent with what Nelson said.  You could argue that "to pass" is meaningfully different from "be legitimate" but one could just as easily argue that it is unreasonable to expect a bill that is not legitimate to pass.

    Now, back to your comment.  You imply that Brian accused Nelson of requiring 65 votes.  But Brian used the word "should."  "Should" can be used to express a suggestion, such as --You should not let your mouth write checks your ass can't cover.-- or it can express expectation, such as --Any minute now, everyone should realize what a twit you are.-- If one wanted to express a requirement, it would be much more appropriate to to use "must".  He did not, but you called him a liar anyway.  One must therefore conclude that you are:

    A) Very, very stupid

    B) Yourself, a liar

    C) Both A and B.

    Given that your fabrication can be easily dispelled by reading a statement from the same page, and you chose to provoke me when you knew I would rip you apart, I'm guessing it must be A or C.

    Now, why don't you go back to just calling me "Derwin"  since that seems to be the most intelligent thing you have to say.



    [ Parent ]
    hmmm... (0.00 / 0)
    the basic premise of your misguided attack is to change the meaning of what brian wrote "to pass" to something more generic. It is a a fact that Nelson did not say the bill required 65 votes to pass as brian said. you even pointed that out. Though you did try to contort the meaning of what Nelson said to equate to what Brian claimed, but a dictionary reference clears that up for those who do not know the definition of the words in question.

    So my assessment of Brian's comment, Derwin, is correct. He is lying when he says Nelson said the bill requires 65 votes to pass. He didn't say that.

    Let's examine your analysis of Brian's use of "should." He used it in quoting someone else, in this case Nelson. He did not use it in the first person or to express his own thought such as "people who don't understand english should not be allowed to post on blogs" or "what he said was he should apologize for being so verbose".

    Your attempt at obfuscation is either
    A: very disingenuous
    B. very, very stupid
    C. both
    D. double both

    I'll pick D which is probably the grade you got for reading comprehension.


    [ Parent ]
    That's the same stupid lie you told before. (0.00 / 0)
    Brian did not say "require".  That is your word.

    That is what is called a strawman argument.  Lie about the substance of an opponent's argument, and then explain why that fabricated argument is false.  Strawman arguments are generally used when someone has nothing of substance to say, as is the case here.

    I almost feel bad humiliating you like this but, what the hell, you've brought it on yourself.

    Let's examine your analysis of Brian's use of "should." He used it in quoting someone else, in this case Nelson. He did not use it in the first person or to express his own thought such as "people who don't understand english should not be allowed to post on blogs" or "what he said was he should apologize for being so verbose".

    No, he did not.  This is another strawman argument.   "Quoting" refers to repeating a phrase, word for word, that is spoken or written by another.  Typically, quoted phrases are surrounded by quotation marks.  You should have learned this stuff in elementary school.  

    What Brian did was paraphrase Nelson's remarks.  Paraphrasing is giving the gist of a phrase without relying on the exact words.  Now, I know you think Brian's portrayal does not represent the intent of Nelson's words, though you have been unable to express that without lying, so let's take a look and see how others paraphrased Nelson's remark.

    TPM - Nelson: Health Care Reform Needs 65 Votes To Be Legitimate

    The Plum Line -  Ben Nelson Says Reform Needs 65 Votes To Be Legit

    The Economist - "[Ben Nelson] thinks 65 is the appropriate number of votes to pass health-care reform in the Senate."

    Washington Monthly - "Nelson said health care reform ought to pass with 65 votes"

    Rachel Maddow - "but according to Ben Nelson, Democrat, health reform should have 65 votes in the Senate"

    AlterNet - Blue Dog Ben Nelson Says Health Reform Should Have Super-Majority of 65 Votes

    The Washington Independent - "[Ben Nelson] said last week that the health reform bill should be bipartisan - attracting at least 65 votes - to be credible with the American people."

    Kyle Michaelis - "By comparison, Nelson has been a vision of reasonableness and statesmanship.  Of course, that's very faint praise - especially after his demanding a few weeks ago that 'health care legislation should be bipartisan and supported by at least 65 senators.'"

    So, people with an actual command of the English language seem to back Brian up.  Some use the phrase "to pass" and some even use the word "need" which is a synonym of "require."  You have no legs left to stand on.

    By the way, neither of the examples you provide in your last comment represent a person speaking in the first person.


    [ Parent ]
    Thanks Darwin (0.00 / 0)
    Wow. If I ever need a lawyer to defend me, I would hope that you are one so that I might hire you.

    Huskersolon and his ilk live in a fantasy world wherein they create their own reality; something "is" because they say it "is." The problem with such logic is when the one making up the words listens to himself and accepts that as the truth. It rather reminds me of a quote attributed to the Austrian journalist/playwright, Karl Kraus, "How is the world ruled and led to war? Diplomats lie to journalists and believe these lies when they see them in print."


    [ Parent ]
    Not a lawyer. (0.00 / 0)
    just a working stiff.  But thanks.

    [ Parent ]
    I guess we are saying the same thing... (0.00 / 0)
    you warped Brian's words to fit your attack. I just took what he said verbatim - that (and I'm paraphrasing here Derwin..."Nelson said the bill should have 65 votes to pass."

    There is no question Brian left the reader with the impression Nelson said 65 votes were required "to pass."

    The point is the original statement is wrong, was misrepresented purposely, and is thus a lie.

    Please give us all more clips to read.

    I will concede the "should" argument because I mistyped the lead into the fabricated quotes - I meant to present examples LIKE those brian used not first person examples. My bad. But I think my point still stands - your argument in defense of the use of "should" doesn't hold water because your underlying premise is incorrect.  But hey good for you!

    Brian, even if you use Derwin as your lawyer, doesn't change the fact that you are a liar - and this is simply just the latest example of it. Both of you fail to see the larger point that has been made by others here - that your constant complaining and attacking of Nelson, and everyone who dare post on this site, even if he does what you want, is damaging to the Party in NE and has probably turned thousands of people away. But keep it up - you guys are effectively building the permanent minority in Nebraska.

    Kyle - over on Leavenworth they declared the NNN dead due to lack of activity. You might consider putting your considerable talents to work in a more productive way. Continuing to provide a venue for these goofballs to embarrass themselves and the party is counterproductive to the stated goals of the site. Have you thought of becoming a political columnist? stop giving it away for free here just to be ridiculed for it. Think about it.



    [ Parent ]
    Verbatim? I'll give you verbatim. (0.00 / 0)
    OK, HuskerColon,

    You want some things that you can quote me on? Alright, let's make it perfectly clear. I believe that Senator Ben Nelson is the worst thing that has ever happened to the Nebraska Democratic Party. Ever since he has become a Senator, the NDP hasn't elected a single Democrat to a statewide or federal office. I definitely believe there is a correlation there that only an idiot would ignore.

    When we have had good candidates, the Senator's lack of support for them has cost them considerably. Were he a good Democrat, the health and welfare of his party within his own state should have been of notable importance to him. The only thing, as far as I have witnessed, that the Senator needs the NDP for is a source of funding and labor to staff his election campaign offices.

    What Nebraska's Democrats collectively stand for is very openly stated in the party's Platform. It also has a mechanism in place for stating its position in resolutions voted upon by the NDP State Central Committee. Sen. Nelson has, on far too many occasions, supported things that are in direct opposition to the stated will of the party. My opinion is that the NDP should provide the Senator, should he run again in 2012, the kind of support in return to what he has given us.

    To dig up another old corpse, I have stated on numerous occasions, here on NNN and in other venues, that it is my opinion that Sen. Nelson violated Federal Election law by interfering, either directly or through his minions (perhaps you are one of them) by manipulating the Coordinated Campaign. When I was a delegate to the State Central Committee, I made it a point to look into allegations that I had caught wind of and, after seeing the evidence, came to the conclusion that there were indeed violations. I felt so strongly about this that I worked hard to bring it to the attention not only of the SCC, but to the appropriate legal authorities. That no one cared enough to do anything about it, I personally find disgusting, since it reveals to me that people really only care about illusions, rather than facts.

    Oh, and HuskerColon, if you are going to call me a liar, use the name your mommy gave you and stand up for what you have written. By not doing so you prove that you are nothing but a sniveling, lying coward. If you really believe all that you have written, then stand up for it like a decent person and own your words. I don't mind people using aliases to state their opinions, but when you make personal allegations against someone by calling them a liar in public, it is time to come out from behind your mommy's skirts and be brave enough to accept the consequences. That is why I sign my name to what I write.



    [ Parent ]
    Go Brian (0.00 / 0)
    You are exactly right. ben nelson is the worst thing to happen to Democrats in Nebraska since Bob Kerry left town. The little man with bighead and bigger ego has taken up just about every talking point the Party of No has come up with. Keep up the pressure. Gary Hyde

    [ Parent ]
    Did you ever think... (0.00 / 0)
    that maybe your charges didnt amount to a hill of beans? Your comments here are reckless and slanderous. In your dark mind does Nelson control the hyperpartisan Attorney General? Are you an FEC investigator? I didnt think so.

    If you had an ounce of class you'd apologize to Nelson and everyone at the NDP you just accused of being criminals. They don't deserve that.


    [ Parent ]
    Prove me wrong. (0.00 / 0)
    As I have stated before, in this and other forums, if you doubt my accusations ... prove me wrong. I have the evidence to prove me right, and I am willing to share it with anyone that is willing to do the right thing with it. At this point, I don't care if it is Vic Covalt, if it is the Nebraska Attorney General, if it is the Nebraska Accountability and Disclosure Commission, if it is the FEC. Anyone that wants to see what I've got, all they've got to do is call, prove to me that they are willing and able to do something about it, and I'll give all I've got.

    I am a partisan Democrat, but not to the point where I am willing to allow my party to do what is wrong, then sit back and defend it. If those representing my party are breaking the law, then damn it, I don't support them.

    If there is anyone that is owed an apology, it is the Democrats of the State of Nebraska that have been hoodwinked by Nelson and his minions for far too long.


    [ Parent ]
    You prove it. (0.00 / 0)
    The proving goes to you, Brian. That's how it works. You've made accusations now for years, but never present any proof. So lay it out with your sources for everyone. But we all know you're all hot are and full of crap. You're acting like the Republicans. They like to make things up with no proof, leaving it hard for people to disprove a negative that doesn't exist in the first place.

    Husker, your not the only one who knows a lot of people who are not having much to do with the party because of BTO. He and his small group are the reason a lot of people choose to keep out of it. If they go, and if we get a better Chair, you would see a lot of people get involved again. I'm surprised BTO and his people aren't clamoring to ask Covalt why the party can't pay all their bills, aren't doing real fundraising and are thousands in the hole.  


    [ Parent ]
    Yeah ... right (0.00 / 0)
    As I've stated, several times, I'm willing to share what I've got with anyone that can actually DO anything about it. A nameless coward on a blog doesn't hack it.

    If there are actually people that have left the party because of me, I am certain that their absence has done no harm to the NDP. On the contrary, if I've been personally responsible for ridding the party of some of the dead wood, I am very glad to have been of service. Those that want to hold positions within the party just for the sake of having a title, and wielding "power" so that they can "be" somebody do no good anyway.

    You fools keep mentioning my "small group," my "henchmen," my "cohorts;" this obviously indicates that you believe I've done a good job of organizing some resistance to the status quo that dominated the party for years. If my "organization" has been as successful at driving "thousands" of Democrats out of the party, as some of you idiots claim, then I must be one hell of an organizer.

    I've heard reports, obviously from my "henchmen," that at least two people within the party are laying claim to having recently "run off" one of our party's officers. These individuals are deeply entrenched members of the old guard. Bragging up such anti-Democratic behavior seems contrary to the concept of the Big Tent that you espouse.

    If people have actually left the NDP on account of anything that I have said or done, that sure doesn't say much about their integrity, now does it? If they were so weak that they were unable to defend themselves against little old me, then they must not have had much courage of their convictions - sort of like H: and 1/2.


    [ Parent ]
    Here's why (0.00 / 0)
    the party's finances are in poor shape. (And this is fact, not speculation.) First, the previous administration signed a long-term contract for over-priced office space that the current administration is locked into. Second, big donors are not donating because they are pissed at Nelson. Vic is doing an exemplary job of unifying the party (virtually no in-fighting at last SCC meeting), working toward getting our finances in order and electing Democrats. It's a thankless job that involves an awful lot of behind the scenes work.

    [ Parent ]
    Dag-Nab-It! (0.00 / 0)
    This is no place for reality Ted.  It's obvious that most of the problems in the NDP are a legacy left from previous administrations.  Hukster & 1/2 prefer to create their own reality.  Though they refuse to identify themselves it's a good bet that they supported or were part of those administrations that dug the hole.

    If Brian helped "run off" those "good Democrats" that actually created the mess, maybe instead of trashing him, he should be nominated for one of those awards the NDP passes out.


    [ Parent ]
    Ted..... (0.00 / 0)
    Imagine what it's like in your first year as chair facing a $100,000 debt - like the one that was around Steve Achelpohl's throat in 2001.  That's not a total excuse for the current situation, but it should illustrate just how little there is new about this "office space" sob story.  There are challenges in any transition of power.  Some scapegoating is certainly understandable but it doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence in the party's current direction.

    As for big donors not giving because they're "pissed at Nelson," I also think that's pretty damn over-simplistic.  More than anything else, donors want to see an actual plan for victory.  I'm not blaming anyone in particular for the apparent lack of such a plan for 2010, but we shouldn't kid ourselves that it's not a large part of the problem.


    [ Parent ]
    'Big donors? (0.00 / 0)
    My husband and I are not 'big donors' but when called by the NDP now and in the recent past, we say we will not contribute any money that might aid Ben Nelson and will contribute to individual candidates of our choice.  The reply at the NDP office usually goes something like this "I hear you..." which we take as an inference that that is not the first time the NDP solicitors have heard the comment.

    As far as the claim Brian Osborne has driven people away, his stalwart support of the Democratic principles upon which we should stand on is what keeps me in the party.  


    [ Parent ]
    Kyle, the difference between my post and your response (0.00 / 0)
    is that I relied on facts and you did not. I actually talked to the people making the calls and not once did I hear of anyone refusing to donate because "donors want to see an actual plan". And since my post I've received plenty of feedback from other party officials that agreed with my assessment that previous donors are not donating because of their dissatisfaction with Nelson. One event that had tried to get Nelson as a speaker but was unable to received several thousand dollars in donations after it was clear Nelson wouldn't be there.

    When I became a member of the State Central Committee in 2006 I soon discovered it was the most dysfunctional organization I had ever been involved with. Just my opinion, but I diagnosed the cause as people more concerned with their allegiances than the health of the party, especially on the Exec Board of which you were a member. The previous chair inherited an $80,000 fine (paid off with a subprime interest loan). What does this have to do with my explanation (sob story?, scapegoating?) of the current administration's finances? The past group unwisely entered into a long-term contract for excess office space that is impacting our finances. They also left a massively disorganized office. But that's okay because it also happened to Steve? That's a child's playground argument.

    Here's the 2010 plan. 1) Raise money to keep the lights on, 2) Find county chairs for all counties, 3) Find state candidates for 2010. Vic and company are working hard on all of these areas, but #1 negatively impacts #2 and #3. And I would give the leadership an A+ in getting the SCC to work together, not viewing them as simply an appendage of the Exec Board.

    I became an active Democrat because I couldn't stomach how so many in the other party made a habit of denying reality if it didn't conform to their beliefs. You are guilty of this, Kyle.

    Ted Kessler


    [ Parent ]
    Ted...... (0.00 / 0)
    I was not a member of the NDP State Executive Committee in 2006.  Yet, I will refute this long-standing fantasy that the Executive Committee of the time was pulling all the strings and so grossly exceeding its authority.  Like the SCC, the SEC overwhelmingly deferred to the State Chair and to the Executive Director.  That hasn't changed under the current leadership, and I don't expect it to change so long as the party is organized in its current form.

    I respect the challenge that Vic Covalt has faced from day one as State Chair.  I've laid no blame at his door, but don't think anyone benefits from your shirking responsibility and making excuses on his behalf.

    Leadership is facing the problems you have - not the ones you wish you had.  Deal with it - especialy before accusing me of "denying reality."


    [ Parent ]
    Kyle... (0.00 / 0)
    It's more complicated than that.
    Leadership is facing the problems you have - not the ones you wish you had.
    Leadership also requires identifying and analyzing those problems, including how they were created and who created them.  Even Obama is learning that it's not enough to just say we're not looking back we're looking ahead.  The only people served by ignoring and covering up the problems of the past are the ones who created the problems.  

    [ Parent ]
    Your statement (0.00 / 0)
    As for big donors not giving because they're "pissed at Nelson," I also think that's pretty damn over-simplistic. More than anything else, donors want to see an actual plan for victory.
    is denying reality. I'm not accusing you of this. I'm stating a fact. I have people explicitly stating that they are not donating because of Nelson. Are they lying? Am I lying? You have a bad habit of not seeing what you don't want to see. And to accuse me of shirking responsibility? I'm not one to toot my own horn, but I've spent countless hours developing a tool I've provided free to the county and state party that helped in the caucuses and is being used to identify volunteers and possible activists. Even spent my own dime to travel to Alliance to present it. And you've completely misread the effect of party organization on SEC operation. The previous chair took a "my way or the highway" approach with the Exec Board rarely dissenting, while the current one accepts input and wants the board to set policy, as is its right and responsibility.

    Now I didn't enter this thread to start a fight. I simply tried to factually explain NDP's financial state. Too much money is going out because of a decision the previous administration made. Not enough is coming in because of dissatisfaction with our top office holder. All we can do is push forward. But denying part of the problem makes this difficult.


    [ Parent ]
    By the way.... (0.00 / 0)
    when I talked about donors wanting to see a plan, was it really necessary that I add they want to see a plan that can win?

    [ Parent ]
    Democracy anyone? (0.00 / 0)
    Brian,
    ever heard of the concept of "innocent until proven guilty?" Your challenge to us to prove a negative is silly.

    [ Parent ]
    You won't accept the challenge because you can't. (0.00 / 0)
    I made my case to the Nebaska State Attorney General. His office said they don't get involved with "not-for-profit" organizations. Vince Powers, our National Committeeman, told me that we aren't a "not-for-profit." To date, no one has been able to identify exactly what a political party is. I guess it depends on what the meaning of the word "is" ... "is."

    I would assume this is a bone that even the Republican dogs don't want to touch because the same kind of thing is going on within their own party.


    [ Parent ]
    not for profit status (0.00 / 0)
    not for profit status is an IRS designation. You either are, or are not a "not-for-profit." You can be a not-for-profit AND something else. But to be a not-for-profit you have to be recognized as such by the IRS.

    helpful?


    [ Parent ]
    While you are in a "helpful" mode ... (0.00 / 0)
    can YOU tell me - exactly what IS a political party considered to be for legal purposes? I have asked all the people that I would assume should know the answer and have received nothing but obfuscation in return.

    So, my question is, "What, exactly, is a political party considered to be in legal terms, and for IRS purposes?


    [ Parent ]
    Political parties are considered "political parties" (0.00 / 0)
    More broadly, they are political organizations - generally operating through political party committees under Section 527 of the Internal Revenue code.

    [ Parent ]
    Thank you Kyle. (0.00 / 0)
    That's the first straight answer I've gotten to that question after two years or more of asking it.

    [ Parent ]
    you are right. (0.00 / 0)
    I can't prove a negative. Nobody can.

    [ Parent ]
    I can probe a positive. (0.00 / 0)
    Among other things, I have a recording of the past NDP State Chair, captured during a pubic meeting, stating categorically that Sen. Nelson would never allow certain things to happen within the Coordinated Campaign. That, to me, indicates that Sen. Nelson was illegally interfering in the NDP's internal politics and directing how the funds used by the state party would be used during his re-election campaign. It is my understanding that such a thing is a violation of FEC law. I understand that it is also a violation of IRS law.

    Is that the kind of allegation that you were looking for H:?


    [ Parent ]
    And I have a recording of Nelson... (0.00 / 0)
    singing "gimme shelter." Does that make him a rock star?

    [ Parent ]
    Nope (0.00 / 0)
    It just makes him a "special friend" of the health insurance industry.

    (and I see that I can't type ... probe? ... prove)


    [ Parent ]
    Well... (0.00 / 0)
    I'm glad that you think I have that kind of influence, but I really doubt it.  

    You still haven't explained why  Brian's words are substantially different from those others I cited.  I don't remember seeing you chastising Kyle and calling him a liar when he said pretty much the same thing.  If it makes you feel better, go ahead and just keep calling people who disagree with you"liars" and whatever other childish insults you can come up with.  But I would recommend researching the issues so you can form back up your arguments with actual substance.

    And Nelson has not, at any time in this debate, done what I wanted.  Since voting to send this bill to the floor Nelson has voted three times to send it back to the Finance committee.  I guess he's maybe not so interested in having Nebraskans' voices heard.

    As for this blog, in my search last night to find citations this very post appeared as the last result on the first page of the Google search.  I'd say we're doing just fine.  But now that you've suggested to Kyle that he shut down this blog so as to silence people who dissent with YOU, at least we know what your real motives are.


    [ Parent ]
    geez - you'd be a great lawyer... (0.00 / 0)
    First see how many insults you hurl around here before whining about it. If I'm childish you are prenatal.

    And you have a knack for rephrasing other people's words - just as you redefined BOs comments to recast it as not a lie you recast my recommendation to Kyle as some defensively motivated effort at censorship. In reality, the point was Kyle works hard and people like you make a mockery of his work and attack him personally for giving you this forum.  I dont see the sense in continuing it. If you and BO and R are so popular among Democrats - hang out your own shingle. See who comes to listen to you. I'll wager my mom's apron strings it quickly becomes little more the a griping circle jerk.



    [ Parent ]
    The circular jerk is you H: (0.00 / 0)
    The cowardly kitten mews, convinced his voice is that of a mighty lion.

    OK H:, why don't YOU start YOUR own blog? You are so convinced of YOUR prowess. I haven't a clue who Darwin is, although I readily admit, from what I've read, that I like him (I'm assuming ... him). As for Rich and myself, we are both Democratic party chairs of the counties we live in. I have served the party as an SCC delegate, as Assoc. Chair of the 3rd CD for a while, and on numerous committees. I have volunteered my time to help diverse caucuses in a variety of ways. I have worked my ass off for the party, helped get the ball rolling on the 3rd CD organization, spent hours developing a website for the 3rd CD, set up sites for the county chairs' organization, and have attended countless meetings across the entire state. I have helped the campaigns of a gubernatorial candidate and that of a couple of different congressional candidates. What the f*** have you done? All I've heard from you is your exhortations to kiss Ben Nelson's ass.

    I respect the work that Kyle has done on this blog. I have often disagreed with him, sometimes very vehemently. But, the last time we met I told him that I was going to try to treat him with more respect, and I have tried to uphold my end of that bargain. I appreciate that he provides an open forum here and has, with one solitary exception, allowed me to post whatever I wanted here. But it is bozos like yourself that are always calling for more censorship and more limitations on what others may freely express, that think they can tell him how to run his blog - and you would have people believe that you are a Democrat? Hah!

    I think you'd better ask your mommy's permission to be wagering her apron strings, she's probably got a lot more sense than what you have displayed here.


    [ Parent ]
    Wow (0.00 / 0)
    I'm so impressed by your big fat resume. I'd love to tell you what I've done with my life but I don't have that kind of ego. Plus, if I did, I'd risk my future, which you aren't worth.

    How does daring you to start your own blog even remotely suggest censorship? I don't need to start my own blog - I am respectful to my host here. Something you have admitted to failing to achieve.

    I don't pretend to be a lion - I just won't be bullied by you and your henchmen. Again BO the challenge is there for you to accept if you so choose - start your own blog, see if anyone comes to read it. I even have a name for your blog..."If a Tree Falls..."


    [ Parent ]
    Sure you would ... (0.00 / 0)
    Hukster's Colon, but actually proving that you've done something with your life is pretty difficult to do while Mommy is protecting you, isn't it? Ego has nothing to do with the work that I've done for the advancement of the Nebraska Democratic Party. Tweaking the noses of buffoons like yourself ... maybe.

    One thing I have always stated, and will always state, is that the work I've done for the party isn't about me, it is about getting those people who have stood up to the plate to actually hit the ball. Sure, I'm hard on them; too many of them think just showing up for the meetings is all they have to do. I've seen some progress in the three years or so that I've been involved in the party, and yeah, I'd like to think that some of it is partially thanks to me, otherwise- why would I continue to do it? When I first became active it was more than apparent to me that the NDP was nothing but a glee club for Sen. Nelson. If I've accomplished nothing else, it has been demonstrating to my fellow Democrats that we CAN stand up to a U.S.Senator and demand more than just his presence.


    [ Parent ]
    It's not just that you tell so many lies... (0.00 / 0)
    it's that the lies that you tell are so transparent.

    Whatever.  I'm done with you.


    [ Parent ]
    done? (0.00 / 0)
    I'm so hurt Derwin. I miss you. Please come back. What will Brian do without his wingman?

    [ Parent ]
    He'll do just fine. (0.00 / 0)
    Competition like you, H:, is just something for this cat to play with.

    [ Parent ]
    What Crap! (0.00 / 0)
    Hukster, I'm tired of hearing that Brian "has probably turned thousands of people away" from the Democratic Party.  Just when in your lifetime have thousands been involved in the NDP?  As far as I can tell the only people who are repulsed by Brians positions seem to be those who are fans of Ben Nelson, and it's quite obvious they still have their hands firmly wrapped around the throat of the NDP.

    I've talked to hundreds of good Democrats from around the panhandle.  Some are active in the party and others are just good everyday Democrats.  Many of them have expressed a strong dislike for Ben Nelson and his corporate stand in the Senate.  When I've sought out volunteers for party activities I've had many turn me down and tell me they won't be supporting the NDP because they no longer feel they can support Ben Nelson.  I can't think of one who has ever mentioned Brian Osborn, they don't even know who he is.  As a matter of fact those rare few that have met Brian seem to like him.

    If you're honestly interested in stopping the bleeding in the NDP, Hukster, you should probably be calling down the minority that are still following Nelson blindly.  Silencing the majority to suit the tastes of Nelson's supporters isn't working out too well.  I have seen first hand the way you and others have actively tried to run off Democrats that refuse to support Nelson.  If you and your ilk want to continue supporting Nelson and his corporate positions that is your right, but you need to stop making support for Nelson some sort of litmus test for those who would otherwise be willing to get involved in the NDP.

     


    [ Parent ]
    informal surveys (0.00 / 0)
    Every Democrat that I know that reads this blog is embarrassed by BO. How's that for a scientific survey. I frankly dont spend a lot of time thinking about BO, I just wont let him get away with his bullshit here. I am one of the few left that dont bow down to the bullying of him and his henchmen.

    R at least you have a somewhat reasonable tone in your post and I do understand your anger. But I have never tried to run off anyone. Not sure what that was about.

    I've not created any litmus tests either. For years I have challenged the Nelson whiners here to come up with an alternative. Nobody has.  He's the most senior ranking Democrat in Nebraska. He deserves some respect for that. I've simply pointed out when folks are being unfair and over the top in their criticisms.  There are plenty of candidates in Nebraska who have received and won with Nelson's support. Shame on them for never defending Nelson. If anyone here is still grinding the axe for Kleeb, had he listened to Nelson and run against Adrian Smith he'd be a Congressman right now and maybe a Senator or Governor in the future.  I know people what Nelson to cover the check for Kleeb's ego but that simply isnt fair.  Bob Kerrey left you all with nothing when he went chasing skirts in New York. And he chickened out when he had the chance to come back and save the party in 2008.

    Nelson is likely to retire in 2012. Who will you all kick around then? Who will fund the Party after that? Are you all counting on the NDP of SCC being in Buffett's will?  if the results are any indication, the efforts of some here who insist in tearing down Nelson to advance the principals of the Party are a failure. I dont agree with Nelson on everything, never have. I just dont see the future of the NDP improving with first securing the head of Ben Nelson.

    But you guys keep it up cuz you are doing a hell of a job rubbing each other's backs while the Party becomes a laughingstock. Feel good about it. You all should.
     


    [ Parent ]
    "Every Democrat that I know ..." (0.00 / 0)
    You must not know very damned many Democrats H:. Your survey, of all three of them, has all the validity of your honor, which is severely lacking.

    You call me a "bully" and accuse me of having "henchmen." That would, evidently, indicate that you believe that I am a very powerful individual, and  that you fear what I am capable of. How deluded you are. You ascribe considerably more influence to me than I possess.

    You claim to be "... one of the few left that don't bow down to the bullying ..." What B.S.! Are you trying to convince yourself of your own heroism? By continuing to attack from behind your veil of anonymity you only buttress my assertion that you are a sniveling coward.

    You claim that Nelson is "the most senior ranking Democrat in Nebraska." That is a key point where we differ. I believe the most senior ranking Democrat in Nebraska is the least of us. Anyone that offers to represent Democrats in this state, be it by election to office, election to a position within the party, or serving on a committee, is not elevated to position higher than those they represent - they are, rather, ever more subservient to their constituents. The more people an officer represents, the more subservient he/she should become.

    It doesn't surprise me that you would consider Sen. Nelson to be above us all - that we should all be serving his greater glory. You are probably one of those that, once elected or nominated to any position within the party, consider yourself to be "better" than everyone "below" you. I look at being a Democrat in a way diametrically opposed to that. For me, the "higher" the position one has in the party means only that you "serve" a greater number of people.

    Here you scurriously attack people by name, while safely defending yourself in anonymity. If you have the balls to call someone out for their egos, such as you have done with myself and Scott Kleeb, then do the honorable thing and sign your comments with your real name. Perhaps it is Noel Coward? Joe Coward? Moe Coward? Whatever.

    By the way - I feel just fine standing up for principles, you should try it sometime, rather than denigrating those that do.


    [ Parent ]
    Helloooo (0.00 / 0)
    Brian - who's typing this stuff? Is it the bird that pops out of your forehead every 60 minutes?

    I never put Nelson "above us all." I stated a fact. He is the senior ranking Democrat in Nebraska. Am I mistaken? Is there a President of Nebraska I'm unaware of?


    [ Parent ]
    Learn to read H: (0.00 / 0)
    I explained how we differ on the topic of what "senior ranking Democrat" means. Your constant bellowing of B.S. has deafened your own ears, and evidently addled your brain as well.

    [ Parent ]
    definitions (0.00 / 0)
    I guess I'm perplexed. I state a fact. you go on an unrelated rant about your thoughts about what "senior Democrat" means, yet I'm full of BS.

    I stated a fact BO. Indisputable fact. You spouted some rhetoric. By definition you are the billower of BS.

    Just sayin.


    [ Parent ]
    Take the blinders off. (0.00 / 0)

    Every Democrat that I know that reads this blog is embarrassed by BO.

    That statement is a bit narrow minded and self serving at best.  There are many who post here who seem to agree with Brian.  Are you trying to exclude them from the ranks of the Democratic Party?  Or is it that you feel justified in marginalizing them by refering to them as BO's "henchmen?"

    If the NDP is a "laughingstock" it was that way long before Brian Osborn or I ever got involved.  Maybe you should make an introspective analysis of the situation and then reassess where the blame properly belongs.  A good friend of mine who was involved in Dmocratic politics many years ago said it was always fun to go to to Democratic meetings because there was always going to be a good fight.  She didn't think there was a chance the Republicans could have near as much fun with their marching in lock step mentality.  So it seems likely there has been some difference of opinion on issues within the Democratic party for a lot longer than Brian and I have been involved.

    You can marginalize those you don't agree with all you want, refer to them as "henchmen" and claim they are destroying the party.  The fact that you refuse to debate an issue doesn't make it a non issue.  Nelson is very unpopular with a majority of Nebraska Democrats right now, and the leadership of the NDP is damaging the party by insisting that the rest of us have to support him right or wrong.


    [ Parent ]
    good points but you missed my point... (0.00 / 0)
    I used the "every Democrat I know" frame to point out your claims to know the wishes of all Democrats were unscientific at best. Quoting nameless "hundreds" of Democrats is the same as "every Democrat I know."

    Regardless, I bet if you asked your old friend if the nastiness displayed toward Senator Nelson here is the kind of "good fight" she remembers. BAck then I bet folks argued politics then went and had a beer. That's not the feeling around here - from my perspective anyway - I wont speak for anyone else on that.

    Your first graph makes no sense - I wouldn't characterize people who agree with me and are embarrassed by BO as his "henchmen." If anything they'd be my henchmen or me theirs. Not his though.

    Nobody - as far as I know - has demanded folks support Ben Nelson "right or wrong." Who has said that to you? There is legitimate disagreement to be had - I don't agree with most of what he says and does. But the fact remains he is our Senator and until he's not we can gripe but there isn't a need to do it as personal, nasty and mean as it gets here. As I have said, come up with an alternative. You all want to blame Nelson for the state of the Party's past and for its future. Nelson isn't the NDP's future. You are. Stop blaming him for everything. It doesn't help you achieve anything.


    [ Parent ]
    Nelson is who "represents" us. (0.00 / 0)
    Why attack Nelson? Because he is the one that pisses us off. He is the one that can, and evidently feels he must, destroy the health care reform bill. The Nebraska Democratic Party - as I have stated before - nearly unanimously voted to demand a "robust public option." Ben's response was to tell us to go fly a kite. What are we supposed to do, send him a thank you note?

    [ Parent ]
    Influence (0.00 / 0)
    Geez H:,

    If the ability of Darwin and I to drive registered voters away from the Nebraska Democratic Party is so overwhelming, maybe we should become Republicans and take over Mark Fahleson's job. Or, even better, run for office as Republicans. Then, with us out of your way, all of your theories could be proven.

    Such a move on our part would assuredly result in the immediate resurgence of the NDP to a healthy, thriving state; candidates for all federal, constitutional, and legislative offices would abound - the party's coffers would overflow with donations - the number of registered Democrats, and those willing to serve as delegates, committee members, etc., would just explode!

    On the other hand, I am quite certain that your participation in the party has been its sole saving grace. Let's try a little experiment - you leave the party for a couple of years, and we'll all see how dismally things go without you. Then we'd all clamor for your return and Darwin and I would voluntarily go into permanent political exile.

    But, then again, to confirm the success of your theories, you'd have to emerge from behind your super-hero cape and mask, exposing to all the world the true identity of Super Colon. I don't think the Clark Kent in you could handle the transition.


    [ Parent ]
    This tactic may backfire on the right-wingers (0.00 / 0)
    They are giving citizen activists against HCR the incorrect impression that Nelson's latest vote was the all-important one, and that passage of the bill is now a fait accompli thanks to Nelson.  A lot of these people may just be dumb enough to give up having heard this.

    republican in sheep's clothes (0.00 / 0)

    Ben Nelson is a republican in sheep's clothes.  Lest we forget the  "65 legitimacy" vote he touted comes after the "75-80" votes the republicans were touting earlier last summer.  

    http://www.salon.com/news/poli...

    But even that is apparently not enough to satisfy the Republicans, at least not when it comes to healthcare. Three Republican senators -- Orrin Hatch, along with crucial healthcare negotiators Mike Enzi and Charles Grassley -- have insisted on a bipartisan bill. And "bipartisan," they claim, means 75 or 80 votes. Says Enzi, "We need to get a bill that 75 or 80 senators can support." According to Hatch, "bipartisan" means "something between 75 and 80 votes." And Grassley told the Washington Post, "We ought to be focused on getting 80 votes."

    These tactics are truly obstructionists and totally ignore the constitution's rules of 51% majority.   Notice, no one touting these figures even mentions that beloved document.   Instead they banter around their own arbitrary numbers because they have no interest in adhering to constitutional law.  Their only interest is in hyperbole and promoting their own desire for impediment. Nelson and his Republican bed fellows are not patriotic.  Their own self interests is  in deciding what is "legitimate" and what is " bi-partisan"  because legitimacy and bipartisan are terms that they can use to obscure the constitution and the rules of the senate (cloture).  This kind of self promotion goes beyond politics.  It is the epitome of hubris  and arrogance



    New Nebraska Network
    Not Just Red to Blue - More than One Label for Another


    Active Users
    Currently 2 user(s) logged on.

    Menu

    Make a New Account

    Username:

    Password:



    Forget your username or password?


    NNN on Twitter

    101st Legislature

    Progressive Partners
  • Coalition For Lifesaving Cures
  • Nebraskans For Obama
  • Change That Works - Nebraska
  • Nebraska Democratic Party
  • Nebraska Young Democrats
  • Nebraskans for Peace
  • Center for Rural Affairs
  • Nebraska Appleseed Center
  • Center for People in Need
  • ACLU Nebraska
  • Sierra Club Nebraska
  • Common Cause Nebraska
  • Voices For Children
  • Opportunity@Work
  • Power Up Nebraska

  • Politicians & Candidates
  • Tom White for Congress (D-02)
  • Mark Lakers for Governor (D)
  • Mark Stoj for Treasurer (D)
  • Janet Stewart for Sec/State (D)
  • Rebekah Davis for Cong. (D-03)
  • Lee Terry for Congress (R-02)
  • Dave Heineman for Governor (R)
  • Tom Nesbitt for Treasurer (R)
  • Tony Fulton for Treasurer (R)
  • Don Stenberg for Treasurer (R)
  • John Gale for Sec/State (R)
  • Adrian Smith for Congress (R-03)
  • Bruning for Atty Gen (R)
  • Sen. Ben Nelson (D)
  • Sen. Mike Johanns (R)
  • Rep. Jeff Fortenberry (R-01)
  • Rep. Lee Terry (R-02)
  • Rep. Adrian Smith (R-03)
  • Governor's Office
  • Atty General's Office
  • Sec. of State's Office
  • Unicameral Directory
  • Mayor Jim Suttle (D, Omaha)
  • Mayor Chris Beutler (D, Lincoln)
  • Nebraska Democratic Party
  • Nebraska Green Party
  • Nebraska Republican Party

  • Local Media
  • Nebraska State Paper
  • Prairie Fire
  • The Reader
  • North Platte Bulletin
  • Sandhills Express
  • Southwest Nebraska News
  • NET Nebraska Public Radio
  • KFAB Talk Radio (Omaha)
  • KLIN Talk Radio (Lincoln)
  • Channel 3 - CBS (Omaha)
  • Channel 4 - ABC (Kearney)
  • Channel 5 - NBC (Hastings)
  • Channel 6 - NBC (Omaha)
  • Channel 7 - ABC (Omaha)
  • Channel 8 - ABC (Lincoln)
  • Channel 10 - CBS (Lincoln)
  • Channel 42 - Fox (Omaha)

  • Submit a Letter to the Editor
  • Omaha World-Herald
  • Lincoln Journal-Star
  • Daily Nebraskan (UNL)
  • Grand Island Independent
  • Kearney Hub
  • North Platte Telegraph
  • Norfolk Daily News
  • Fremont Tribune
  • Columbus Telegram
  • McCook Daily Gazette
  • Scottsbluff Star-Herald
  • Hastings Tribune

  • Powered by: SoapBlox